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011 Nazvati nekoga, telefonirati nekomu

19/9/2019

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Miscellaneous items #011

Nazvati nekoga, telefonirati nekomu


What is the case of nouns following particular verbs?

Nazvati + accusative case, telefonirati + dative case


​Mary is Australian. Suppose that Mary wants to call her brother Ivan (by telephone) ….

She says “I will call my brother”.

In this English sentence, in what case is “my brother”? It looks like the direct object of the verb “to call”, so we might conclude that “my brother” is in accusative case.

So (correspondingly) in Croatian, Marija would say “Nazvat ću mog brata Ivana”.

Or perhaps, after she had called her sister Ivanka on another day, “Nazvala sam moju sestru Ivanku”.
​
Yes, accusative case again.
 
But suppose that Marija decided to use the verb telefonirati, instead of nazvati …….

Then she would say: “Telefonirat ću mom bratu Ivanu”.

and “Telefonirala sam mojoj sestri Ivanki.”
​
!!!!!!!!!! As you can recognise, she now puts her brother and sister in dative case!
 
So what’s going on? Well, nothing odd through Croatian eyes – it just seems odd through English-speaking eyes (or ears).
 
It just happens that in Croatian, nouns and pronouns following the verb nazvati (to call) go in the accusative case. For example: 

            Koga zoveš?  Who are you calling?
            Nazvat ću nekoga.  I will call somebody.
            Ivan je nazvao Mariju.  Ivan called Marija.
            Zovem ga.  I am calling him.
 
But nouns and pronouns following the verb telefonirati go in the dative case. For example:
            Komu telefoniraš?  Who are you calling?
            Telefonirat ću nekomu.  I will call somebody.
            Ivan je telefonirao Mariji.  Ivan called Marija.
            Telefoniram mu.  I am calling him.
 
When I declare frustration (again) to my teacher Mateja (SpeakCro Language Center) she tells me “Oh, it’s simple …….. You just translate telefonirati as “to make a call to ….” Then the word “to” tells us that the following noun goes in the dative case. Like …
            I will give the apple to somebody.   Dat ću jabuku nekomu.
            She gave the cheese to Marija:   Dala je sir Mariji.

 
OK, so the examples above I could re-translate as follows:

            Komu telefoniraš?  To whom are you making a call?
            Telefonirat ću nekomu.  I will make a call to somebody.
            Ivan je telefonirao Mariji.  Ivan made a call to Marija.
            Telefoniram mu.  I am making a call to him.
 

Picture
                         Ona zove sestru.                                                                    Ona telefonira sestri.
​
Image by PublicDomainPictures from Pixabay.

I have one more question for Mateja, similar to many others that I have asked her: “How can I know that I should translate nazvati as “to call ….”, but telefonirati as “to make a call to ….. .”
 
You would surely be surprised (sarcasm is thick here) at her two-part answer: “Firstly, you need to stop trying to translate everything back into English. Secondly, that is just the way it is, and you need to familiarize yourself with the way things are in the Croatian language.”
​
Where have I heard that before!?
 

And yes, of course I now realise that I simply must familiarize myself with which case nouns follow each transitive verb. More examples …..
 
Accusative:
            Koga si pitala? Pitala sam učitelja. I asked my (male) teacher.
            Koga oni čekaju? Čekaju sestru Nevenku. They are waiting for their sister Nevenka.
                                                                 or, …….. They are awaiting their sister Nevenka.
But,
Dative:
            Komu si pomagao?  Pomagao sam Ivanu.  I gave help to Ivan. (or, I helped Ivan).
            Komu ste pokazali sobu? Pokazali smo sobu sestrama. We showed the room to (our) sisters.
 
How long will it take me to familiarize myself with the cases of nouns that follow each verb? I am not sure, but I think that there are more verbs in the Croatian language than there are people in Croatia!

Addendum: Idiot at large ....... Some months after posting this blog, I realised that I had posted another on the very same subject, entitled Koga nazoveš? Komu telefoniraš? Duh!! 

This blog is posted under LEARNING CROATIAN, and the later one one under CROATIAN GRAMMAR.

Rather than treat one of these as superfluous, and delete it, I am letting them stand. Not only will these two posts demonstrate how one person can make a point is such different ways, but you, my reader, might find that one "clicks" better than the other.




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You can browse or search this website in the following ways:
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  • Home
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  • MISCELLANEOUS
    • Posts 1 -15 >
      • 001 Kosa, koza, koža
      • 002 Pronouncing 'au'
      • 003 Can language influence behaviour?
      • 004 First day of the week
      • 005 Do Croatians assign gender to objects?
      • 006 Za četiri dana, na dva dana
      • 007 My brain becomes full!
      • 008 Sretan rođendan ti
      • 009 Na kavu, po kavu, za kavu?
      • 010 Until you don't do it
      • 011 Nazvati nekoga, telefonirati nekomu
      • 012 If she were a man ....
      • 013 Streets with two names?
      • 015 Tri, četiri, sad!
    • Posts 16-30 >
      • 016 I feel like crying!
      • 017 I felt like crying, I will feel like crying
      • 018 Picking up place names by ear
      • 019 Where did the "j" go?
      • 020 Koliko kiše smo imali?
      • 021 Požuri polako
      • 022 Mi, mi, mi, mi
      • 023 Why should we learn the grammar?
      • 024 Words for youngsters are neuter
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        • 001 Licitarska srca
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      • 001 Where are the pronouns?
      • 002 Padeži and noun endings
      • 003 Endings of pronouns and adjectives
      • 004 "u" ili "na" ?
      • 005 The declensions of Tko? and Što?
      • 006 Ja sam na Trgu bana Josipa Jelačića
      • 007 Going and coming: u-iz, but na-sa
      • 008 Sav - All, every
      • 009 Number of subjects and the verb 'biti'
      • 010 Koga nazoveš? Komu telefoniraš?
      • 011 Declension of place names
      • 012 Dati - dativ
      • 013 Verb endings: Who is the doer?
      • 014 Sibilarization and palatalization
      • 015 Iotation (jotacija)
    • Grammar: Posts 16-30 >
      • 016 Vodice su grad u Hrvatskoj
    • Grammar reference section >
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        • 001 Questions that define the case of nouns
        • 002 All nouns have gender
        • 003 Nouns in the nominative case
        • 004 Nouns: Declension categories
        • 004a A universal declension table?
        • 005 Declension of regular masculine nouns
        • 006 Declension of regular feminine nouns
        • 008 Masculine plural - infix or not?
      • VERBS >
        • 001 Transitive and intransitive verbs
        • 004 Conjugation types
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      • 006 Eto ti ga na!
      • 007 Na licu mjesta
      • 008 Sve si to ti kriv!
    • DAKLE, ŽELIŠ BITI KAO PRAVI HRVAT, JE L' DA? HOME >
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      • 002 Je l' tako?
      • 003 Tako je!
      • 004 Izvoli! Izvolite!
      • 005 Eto!
  • VOCABULARY
    • POSTS 1 - 15 >
      • 001 Even dying is not easy!
      • 002 To laugh or to smile?
      • 003 Nahraniti, sahraniti .... schmahraniti
      • 004 Prefixes that modify verb meanings
      • 005 Prefixes on base verb stati
      • 006 Country names - noun or adjective?
      • 007 Names of towns: A grammatical nightmare
      • 008 Countries: What do we call their citizens?
      • 009 Baš
      • 010 What a joke! vic or šala?
      • 011 Čak
      • 012 Još or više? (More of something)
      • 013 Još or više? (Time-related)
    • FRAZEOLOGIJA - HOME >
      • Based on NOUNS >
        • 001 RUKA
      • Based on VERBS >
        • 001 UZIMATI/UZETI
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      • 001 GOVORITI verbs
    • Vocab THEMES: HOME >
      • 001 In the time of coronavirus
    • Što je korijen riječi?: HOME >
      • 001 Nadimak
      • 002 Zora, prozor, zoran, ….
      • 003 Uništiti
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      • 001 Anthem: LIJEPA NAŠA
      • 002 Map of Croatia
      • 003 Županije: The counties of Croatia
    • Where/What/Who is that? HOME >
      • Where/What/Who? Pages 1 - 15 >
        • 001 A girl and a bird
        • 002 His left foot
        • 003 A rebel
        • 004 Čuvarica Omiša
        • 005 Giorgio or Juraj?
        • 006 Tovar and friend
        • 007 Up on high
        • 008 On an island
        • 009 Water wonderland
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        • THE CITY >
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          • 002 Interliber book fair
          • 004 On the tramvaj in Zagreb
          • 005 A night at the ballet
      • DALMACIJA: HOME >
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          • 002 Eleven Dalmatian commandments
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