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001 Where are the pronouns?

23/11/2018

2 Comments

 

Croatian grammar #001

Where are the pronouns?

Re-thinking the teaching of Croatian (That didn't take me long, did it?)

To realise who is the "doer" in a Croatian sentence, I need to automatically tune in to the verb, rather than to look for the pronoun (which usually isn't there). Easier said than done!


Forgive me if this blog seems a little "teachy". The script of the video is approximately as follows ...

When we learn something, no matter whether it is good or not so good, it is very difficult to un-learn it.

I now realise that, before coming to Mateja at SpeakCro, I was taught stuff that I had to un-learn in order to converse in Croatian like a native speaker. [Or am I just looking for excuses for my slow progress?]

Here is my story …. In English, we identify the “doer” in a sentence (that is, the subject of the sentence) by personal pronouns in the nominative case.

​
For example, in the following sentences (one in the present, one in the past, and one in the future tense), we identify the doer by the pronouns shown in bold:
            You see the boat.
            I went to Zagreb.
            We will walk around Split.
​
The problem is that in my first lessons I was taught to make Croatian sentences in which the doer is indicated in the same way as in English – by using ja, ti, on, ona, ono, mi, vi, oni, one, ona.


No doubt trying to ease the path for us, my previous teachers (and, it seems all textbooks) taught us literal translations of these sentences, including the pronouns …
            Ti vidiš brod.
            Ja sam išao u Zagreb.
            Mi ćemo šetati Splitom.
We kept our English-speaking caps on to tune in to identify the doer – ti, ja, mi.

​
All very well, except that Croatians don't generally talk like that. Unless they want to emphasize who the doer is, they don't use the personal pronouns .....
            Vidiš brod.
            Išao sam u Zagreb.
            Šetat ćemo Splitom.

​And how do they identify the doer when they hear these sentences? They tune in to the form of the verbs:
            Vidiš brod.
            Išao sam u Zagreb.
            Šetat ćemo Splitom.

​
Things are just different: In English, the information is carried with the pronouns, while in Croatian, the information is in the verbs.

I am still trying to undo what I originally learned. I am still trying to train myself to automatically tune in to the verbs, rather than to look for pronouns.
​
Another example .... Who was it that my friend said went to Split yesterday? How do I distinguish between these following sentences .... ?
​
            Išla sam u Split.
            Išao je u Split.
            Išli smo u Split.
            Išli ste u Split.
            Išle su u Split.

Yes, by tuning in to the verbs. But my mind is still searching for ja, on, mi, vi, one!
​
I wish that my previous teachers had given us the pronoun-less versions from the beginning. Then perhaps I wouldn't be trying to re-train my brain!


Kad postanem učitelj hrvatskog jezika .....

[Er .... Who was the subject of that sentence?]

​
I have added a closely related post (Grammar #013 Verb endings: Who is the doer?).
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AHA! Learning Croatian with Bob
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2 Comments
Holden Romero link
25/9/2023 22:21:17

Nice post thanks for shaaring

Reply
Andre Pedisic
12/1/2024 04:16:24

I’ve been learning Croatian being Portuguese my mother tongue. I gotta say that grammatically speaking, it’s not that hard! The missing pronoun is also very common In Portuguese

Reply



Leave a Reply.

Getting around

You can browse or search this website in the following ways:
  • Use the drop-down menus from the buttons at the top of each page to browse page titles.
  • Click to go to the ROAD MAP (also from the drop-down menu under the NAVIGATION button).
  • Click to go to the ALPHABETICAL INDEX. (also from the drop-down menu under the NAVIGATION button).
  • Enter a word or phrase in the Search box at the top of each page.​​




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    • Posts 1 -15 >
      • 001 Kosa, koza, koža
      • 002 Pronouncing 'au'
      • 003 Can language influence behaviour?
      • 004 First day of the week
      • 005 Do Croatians assign gender to objects?
      • 006 Za četiri dana, na dva dana
      • 007 My brain becomes full!
      • 008 Sretan rođendan ti
      • 009 Na kavu, po kavu, za kavu?
      • 010 Until you don't do it
      • 011 Nazvati nekoga, telefonirati nekomu
      • 012 If she were a man ....
      • 013 Streets with two names?
      • 015 Tri, četiri, sad!
    • Posts 16-30 >
      • 016 I feel like crying!
      • 017 I felt like crying, I will feel like crying
      • 018 Picking up place names by ear
      • 019 Where did the "j" go?
      • 020 Koliko kiše smo imali?
      • 021 Požuri polako
      • 022 Mi, mi, mi, mi
      • 023 Why should we learn the grammar?
      • 024 Words for youngsters are neuter
    • EXPERIENCES >
      • EXPERIENCES: POSTS 1 - 15 HOME >
        • 001 Licitarska srca
        • 002 My Aussie accent
        • 003 The upside down SIM card
        • 004 Buying fritule in Split
        • 005 Jučer ili sutra?
        • 006 Što rade ućitelji?
    • VICEVI >
      • Vicevi: Page 1
    • CHALLENGES FOR YOU >
      • 001 Crossword puzzle 1
  • GRAMMAR
    • Posts 1 - 15 >
      • 001 Where are the pronouns?
      • 002 Padeži and noun endings
      • 003 Endings of pronouns and adjectives
      • 004 "u" ili "na" ?
      • 005 The declensions of Tko? and Što?
      • 006 Ja sam na Trgu bana Josipa Jelačića
      • 007 Going and coming: u-iz, but na-sa
      • 008 Sav - All, every
      • 009 Number of subjects and the verb 'biti'
      • 010 Koga nazoveš? Komu telefoniraš?
      • 011 Declension of place names
      • 012 Dati - dativ
      • 013 Verb endings: Who is the doer?
      • 014 Sibilarization and palatalization
      • 015 Iotation (jotacija)
    • Grammar: Posts 16-30 >
      • 016 Vodice su grad u Hrvatskoj
    • Grammar reference section >
      • NOUNS >
        • 001 Questions that define the case of nouns
        • 002 All nouns have gender
        • 003 Nouns in the nominative case
        • 004 Nouns: Declension categories
        • 004a A universal declension table?
        • 005 Declension of regular masculine nouns
        • 006 Declension of regular feminine nouns
      • VERBS >
        • 001 Transitive and intransitive verbs
        • 004 Conjugation types
  • SAYINGS
    • Posts 1 - 15 >
      • 001 Ne daj se!
      • 002 U tom grmu leži zec!
      • 003 Baš me briga!
      • 004 Mačji kašalj!
      • 005 Što je, tu je!
      • 006 Eto ti ga na!
      • 007 Na licu mjesta
      • 008 Sve si to ti kriv!
    • DAKLE, ŽELIŠ BITI KAO PRAVI HRVAT, JE L' DA? HOME >
      • 001 Ovako ....
      • 002 Je l' tako?
      • 003 Tako je!
      • 004 Izvoli! Izvolite!
      • 005 Eto!
  • VOCABULARY
    • POSTS 1 - 15 >
      • 001 Even dying is not easy!
      • 002 To laugh or to smile?
      • 003 Nahraniti, sahraniti .... schmahraniti
      • 004 Prefixes that modify verb meanings
      • 005 Prefixes on base verb stati
      • 006 Country names - noun or adjective?
      • 007 Names of towns: A grammatical nightmare
      • 008 Countries: What do we call their citizens?
      • 009 Baš
      • 010 What a joke! vic or šala?
      • 011 Čak
      • 012 Još or više? (More of something)
      • 013 Još or više? (Time-related)
    • FRAZEOLOGIJA - HOME >
      • Based on NOUNS >
        • 001 RUKA
      • Based on VERBS >
        • 001 UZIMATI/UZETI
    • Vocab THEMES: HOME >
      • 001 In the time of coronavirus
    • Što je korijen riječi?: HOME >
      • 001 Nadimak
      • 002 Zora, prozor, zoran, ….
      • 003 Uništiti
  • CROATIA
    • Republika Hrvatska: HOME >
      • 001 Anthem: LIJEPA NAŠA
      • 002 Map of Croatia
      • 003 Županije: The counties of Croatia
    • Where/What/Who is that? HOME >
      • Where/What/Who? Pages 1 - 15 >
        • 001 A girl and a bird
        • 002 His left foot
        • 003 A rebel
        • 004 Čuvarica Omiša
        • 005 Giorgio or Juraj?
        • 006 Tovar and friend
        • 007 Up on high
        • 008 On an island
        • 009 Water wonderland
    • REGIONS, CITIES, TOWNS: HOME >
      • ZAGREB: HOME >
        • THE CITY >
          • 001 Zagreb cathedral
        • PEOPLE and CULTURE >
          • 001 Advent in Zagreb
          • 002 Interliber book fair
          • 004 On the tramvaj in Zagreb
          • 005 A night at the ballet
      • DALMACIJA: HOME >
        • BEING AND SPEAKING DALMATIAN: HOME >
          • 001 Molin?
          • 002 Eleven Dalmatian commandments
          • 003 Dalmatinski rječnik
      • Zagorje: HOME >
        • 001 Autumn tones
  • NAVIGATION
    • A ROAD MAP
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